NPC AI and interactions suggestions

[Sakura02]

NPC INTERACTIONS SUGGESTIONS


So we've been brainstorming some ideas for the NPCs because obviously everyone is really excited about that. I think in recent years NPC interactions I feel for HM have been pretty lackluster, so I'm taking comments and suggestions for you guys to see what you may like to see and what we can do to the best of our ability to implement in some manner.

NPC interactions are things like, dialogue, daily schedules, dating, family, just any kind of player to NPC action/reaction or personality trait that makes them more likable or believable.
Here are some questions I have for you guys.

1. What kind of NPC interactions you've enjoyed in previous games (does not need to be HM)
2. What kind of interactions you have not seen, but would be cool to implemented.
3. Any examples of poorly executed or uninteresting NPC interactions in previous games for us to avoid.
4. What NPCs in previous games have a special place in your heart and why?
5. Any other comments, suggestions, advice etc for us.

(Write as much or as little as you wish we will read it)


Take advantage of this because not many games open their development to suggestions/critiques from the public. We obviously can't implement every suggestion but, it doesn't hurt to voice your opinion because it just might make a difference and affect the game. Thanks so much guys we appreciate your feedback we love hearing from you!

[TwirlyBloom]

Lol, I'll try to get the ball rolling. I can't remember specifics off the top of my head, but I remember enjoying interacting with NPCs where it really felt like they had a life beyond just standing there. Most online games have the most cardboard NPCs, where they're all interchangeable, and it doesn't feel like you're talking to (what's supposed to be) a person at all. Maybe add a few implications of stuff going on in their lives? Also, I tend to appreciate voice-acted dialogues, but that's probably too big a production, lol. I think the best tool to use would be diction -- maybe add "y'all", "y'know", "eh", or some other dialect inflection to some characters.

I dislike NPCs that makes you slog through a whole repetitive dialogue just to get to what you need, though I can sort of understand why that would be easier to program. I really prefer going to an NPC and they already have the finished quest interaction ready to go.

For favorite NPCs, at the moment I can only think of Galatea, from the interactive fiction game, who won the "Best Individual NPC" award in 2001. But that must've been an insane amount of work just for one character XD

[edit: Oooh, maybe an NPC that says funny/off-the-wall things. Or who keeps trying to tell jokes and falls flat XD Or how about a character who seems grumpy but is really a big softie once you get to know them?]

[Eiburine]

1. I like the interactions in Animal Crossing because they attempt to talk to the player. The player does not have to be the only one to talk to everyone and it gives more life to the game :3 I also like how the animals have conversations with each other and you can listen in on the conversation and sometimes they ask you to pick between two sides XD cute quirky stuff like that. I also like how random animals participate in events :3 Some animals choose not to and decide to stay home. Idk that seems more realistic than absolutely everybody participating like in HM, cause if you miss the event, you aren't literally the only person not participating XD

2. I haven't seen many npcs hold hands with each other XD I'd like to see cute parent and little kid hand holding. I always see the kids running around to who knows where. I'd also like to see really expressive animations, like how npcs fluster and jump up and down and are just really energetic in Style Savvy.

3. I can't think of any specific games :3c But I'd like for each npc to say things from a pool of dialogue, so that they don't say the same lines whenever you talk to them like in rpgs, but like animal crossing XD

4. Ahh every npc in Undertale :3 they are all quirky and unique and not one of them uses the same sprite as another. The two that stand out to me though are Sans and Papyrus :)

5. I wonder if... when you talk to npcs in Pumpkin, there will be a cg cutout of them in different emotions, or just the character model youre talking to. (HM and AC style respectively). If you guys are doing the different portrait cutout emotion sprite things, you shouldn't just use a base body and change emotions, use body language too :D yay

[Jymaru]

1. What kind of NPC interactions you've enjoyed in previous games (does not need to be HM)
- Harvest Moon, Animal Crossing... anything that feels like they're talking to the player instead of at the player
- I like dialogue trees, like from Bethesda and Bioware games
- I like it where the NPC approaches you instead of vice-versa (a la Animal Crossing)

2. What kind of interactions you have not seen, but would be cool to implemented
- I can't really think of anything, sorry

3. Any examples of poorly executed or uninteresting NPC interactions in previous games for us to avoid
- Not poorly-executed, but I don't like being talked at by NPCs. An example would be pretty much any one-liner NPC a la the "arrow to the knee" guards from Skyrim

4. What NPCs in previous games have a special place in your heart and why?
- Most Animal Crossing villagers because they're just so fun to talk to. Most NPCs from HM too. Most NPCs who have inter-NPC interactions from Undertale as well, but most of the one-liners and talk-atters (ONION-SAN) I do not like in terms of their conversation unless they have good inter-NPC interaction

5. Any other comments, suggestions, advice etc for us
- Make the NPCs animate when they speak. Body language is important, it says a lot about a character

[Sakura02]

Thanks guys for the well thought out responses I appreciate it. Addressing some of the things you've mentioned.

Lol, I'll try to get the ball rolling. I can't remember specifics off the top of my head, but I remember enjoying interacting with NPCs where it really felt like they had a life beyond just standing there. Most online games have the most cardboard NPCs, where they're all interchangeable, and it doesn't feel like you're talking to (what's supposed to be) a person at all. Maybe add a few implications of stuff going on in their lives? Also, I tend to appreciate voice-acted dialogues, but that's probably too big a production, lol. I think the best tool to use would be diction -- maybe add "y'all", "y'know", "eh", or some other dialect inflection to some characters.

I dislike NPCs that makes you slog through a whole repetitive dialogue just to get to what you need, though I can sort of understand why that would be easier to program. I really prefer going to an NPC and they already have the finished quest interaction ready to go.

For favorite NPCs, at the moment I can only think of Galatea, from the interactive fiction game, who won the "Best Individual NPC" award in 2001. But that must've been an insane amount of work just for one character XD

[edit: Oooh, maybe an NPC that says funny/off-the-wall things. Or who keeps trying to tell jokes and falls flat XD Or how about a character who seems grumpy but is really a big softie once you get to know them?]

I agree as well with how some NPCs seem like cardboard and they seem interchangeable. So of course it all boils to how well we do on the writing, which we will do our best to make as interesting as possible. Voice acting is a bit outside of our budget and scope, however we do plan to have each NPC have a greeting or noise they make when you talk to them. Repetitive dialogue is also tough because there is only so much writing games can do to make NPCs seem lifelike. The best we can do is make sure we have a good dialogue bank to pull from when you are talking to an NPC and have it rotate out as you increase heart levels often enough. Jokes are also a must as well ^_^;

1. I like the interactions in Animal Crossing because they attempt to talk to the player. The player does not have to be the only one to talk to everyone and it gives more life to the game :3 I also like how the animals have conversations with each other and you can listen in on the conversation and sometimes they ask you to pick between two sides XD cute quirky stuff like that. I also like how random animals participate in events :3 Some animals choose not to and decide to stay home. Idk that seems more realistic than absolutely everybody participating like in HM, cause if you miss the event, you aren't literally the only person not participating XD

2. I haven't seen many npcs hold hands with each other XD I'd like to see cute parent and little kid hand holding. I always see the kids running around to who knows where. I'd also like to see really expressive animations, like how npcs fluster and jump up and down and are just really energetic in Style Savvy.

3. I can't think of any specific games :3c But I'd like for each npc to say things from a pool of dialogue, so that they don't say the same lines whenever you talk to them like in rpgs, but like animal crossing XD

4. Ahh every npc in Undertale :3 they are all quirky and unique and not one of them uses the same sprite as another. The two that stand out to me though are Sans and Papyrus

5. I wonder if... when you talk to npcs in Pumpkin, there will be a cg cutout of them in different emotions, or just the character model youre talking to. (HM and AC style respectively). If you guys are doing the different portrait cutout emotion sprite things, you shouldn't just use a base body and change emotions, use body language too yay

You have a lot of good suggestions primarily making sure NPCS interact with each other instead of just kind of wandering around aimlessly. We're going to be using the 3d models instead of cut outs because.

1. Budget (Art is hella expensive)
2. We have over 150 npcs that would be too crazy, 2d cut outs works in games with only a handful of NPCs.
3. Like you have suggested I like the idea of having animations and the bodies animate to express emotion, not just changing the face. This is especially important since we don't have voice acting so being expressive is important..

Our animator is really excited about our animations so I'm sure he'd be excited to do different animations for expressions. We also think this would be neat to use for the player in multiplayer as well. So yeah all good suggestions thanks!

1. What kind of NPC interactions you've enjoyed in previous games (does not need to be HM)
- Harvest Moon, Animal Crossing... anything that feels like they're talking to the player instead of at the player
- I like dialogue trees, like from Bethesda and Bioware games
- I like it where the NPC approaches you instead of vice-versa (a la Animal Crossing)

2. What kind of interactions you have not seen, but would be cool to implemented
- I can't really think of anything, sorry

3. Any examples of poorly executed or uninteresting NPC interactions in previous games for us to avoid
- Not poorly-executed, but I don't like being talked at by NPCs. An example would be pretty much any one-liner NPC a la the "arrow to the knee" guards from Skyrim

4. What NPCs in previous games have a special place in your heart and why?
- Most Animal Crossing villagers because they're just so fun to talk to. Most NPCs from HM too. Most NPCs who have inter-NPC interactions from Undertale as well, but most of the one-liners and talk-atters (ONION-SAN) I do not like in terms of their conversation unless they have good inter-NPC interaction

5. Any other comments, suggestions, advice etc for us
- Make the NPCs animate when they speak. Body language is important, it says a lot about a character

Thanks another round of good suggestions and things for us to keep in mind. It looks like Animal Crossing outranks HM in terms of how they do their NPCs, and boy does everyone love Animal Crossing Villagers. We also try to avoid one liners like you said. Sometimes it's hard to avoid since again writing is a lot of work and we do have a lot of NPCs, however we'll be mixing it up with longer conversations depending on the heart levels. However, something to keep in mid as well thanks again!

[Sakura02]

As for my take on my own questions.

1. I like NPCs when they actual notice they have been talking to them a lot. My pet peeve is romancing someone in HM up to high heart level and they talk about misc things. '___' Talk about me damnit I want to feel important, notice me senpai! lol. I like games where NPCs also notice you when you walk by when you befriend them.

2. Some interactions I have not seen but would like to put in Pumpkin Online (Not confirmed) is have the NPCs actually form relationships with each other. Only Tree of Tranquility did this and I like the idea of rivals (maybe it's because I am guilty shipper).

3. Poorly executed stuff I really want us to avoid In Pumpkin Online:
- Very uninteresting dialogue, which is the NPC saying how great the day is or "It's raining today"
- NPCs that are happy all the time with no issues. I'm not saying it has to be anything depressing or dramatic but, maybe sometimes an NPC did not to want to go to work that day, or maybe sometimes they are a bit moody, or have a bit of a tiffle with another NPCS. It makes them feel more believable.
- NPCs that just kind of stand around and wait for you to them to talk to you.
- NPCs in their dialogue never seem to mention or acknowledge other townsfolk
- Dialogue that is too repetitive. I can deal with repetitive dialogue because I understand you can't write a book for a single NPC, but it has to be not glaringly obvious that it's looping through a limited dialogue bank.
- NPCs that don't show a variety of emotions besides being happy. I like seeing NPCs when they are, worried, excited, scared, etc.

4. NPCs I liked let's see, I liked characters from "Rune Factory Frontier" because they were very diverse and expressive.Cross was this really melancholic character who lived by himself, but was really intriguing when he said things almost philosophical about nature. Brody hated your guts to the point where he'd put rocks in your field randomly, which was refreshing from the usual everyone automatically likes you in other games. Enuice was an actual chubby anime girl character who you can encourage her to lose weight OR you can just be like no you are perfect just as you are which is sweet. There were two NPCS who owned general goods shops that had a rivalry and one shop was clearly better than the other and the NPC with the worst shop got ran out of business but then ended working at his rivals shop O_O; That was some interesting drama. Point is just like NPCs that are more than a walking cut out of "Every day is a great day, let's do our best" I want to know who this NPC is.

So yeah that's my personal take on stuff ^.^ That being said we are giving a lot of thought into how we can make our NPCs as interesting as we can with the limited resources we have.

[Kalessin]

Okay, I'll preface this by saying that I don't really have much to say on the topic - I've never played games where you interacted with an NPC, so I have no basis for comparison.

That said, reading this thread I thought 1) there should be at leas one NPC that is sarcastic? (I get that this can be hard, not everyone parses sarcasm the same) and 2) maybe you should be able to set a mood your own character is in at the moment and the NPCs react to that? No idea if that's feasable or fits into your concept at all, but it crossed my mind, so I'll put it here.

[Sakura02]

Okay, I'll preface this by saying that I don't really have much to say on the topic - I've never played games where you interacted with an NPC, so I have no basis for comparison.

That said, reading this thread I thought 1) there should be at leas one NPC that is sarcastic? (I get that this can be hard, not everyone parses sarcasm the same) and 2) maybe you should be able to set a mood your own character is in at the moment and the NPCs react to that? No idea if that's feasable or fits into your concept at all, but it crossed my mind, so I'll put it here.

That would be cool but so much writing ;___; let me break it down by default each NPC needs at least:
- 150 lines of dialogue in their dialogue bank (obviously affected by heart level not all available immediately)
- Then we have 150 NPCS (possibly more) so that is already 22500 lines of dialogue total. And that's just the default when you walk up to talk to them.

That does not include:

1. Date dialogues
2. NPCS commenting about recent events like festivals
3. Dialogue between NPCS @_@
4. Quest dialogue @_@.

I know people have volunteered to write for us but good writing is very very important and we are super super picky about writers. I'm not claiming we're pros or anything but, we take writing and dialogue really seriously and often times when we end up critiquing writers they snub us lol.

We should be fine. Our game designer and I have written things that have been well over 50-80k words. So we'll see how that goes between us. We're also the type of people that always eagerly seek honest feedback and critique to make our craft better especially between each other -__-; which is hard to swallow sometimes but necessary if you want to make something good .

That being said I'm excited for you to play our game ^.^ if you have not played one with detailed NPCS, not even RPGS?.

[Kalessin]

That's what I meant with 'not feasable' - I'm aware it's a lot of work, so I wasn't expecting you to jump on it You have quite enough work as it is. (And, from what I see, you're doing a great job!)

The only thing with anything like NPCs I've played are pen-and-paper RPGs (and a tiny try-out LARP). Except if you count Simon the Sorcerer when I was a kid *g* But that was.. a long time ago.

[Satirius]

1. What kind of NPC interactions you've enjoyed in previous games (does not need to be HM)

I love NPC interactions that are related outside of standard quests. Like, let's say I go check in with NPC Bob but there's no quest, I just happen to catch him singing to himself or something, and he says something like, "Don't tell ANYONE you heard that!" Later, if I go speak with NPC Jane maybe the system then gives me the option of telling her about it and having a good laugh. It increases my rep with her but decreases with Bob.

The other thing I love is when there are unprompted quests. Like, maybe you know from interacting with him that NPC Bob loves wearing fancy clothes. At some point during your adventure you find a "Fancy Bowtie" accessory. The player can equip it but you can also try to give it to an NPC, with Bob being the one who would accept it to increase your relationship rep. In a situation like this, I prefer when the item doesn't say "Maybe someone would like this as a gift!" For me, I get a kick out of making the connection myself and being rewarded for having paid attention.

2. What kind of interactions you have not seen, but would be cool to implemented.

I would love for there to be the chance for random rare interactions. Part of what ends up boring me about NPCs is that at a certain point it's like, why bother talking to X number of them when I only really want things from like 3 of them? If there was the chance that the system might randomly select my character to have a rare event triggered with any of the NPCs (with a rare reward), it would definitely encourage me to be more invested in continuing NPC interactions.

Also, I'm sure other games have it but it would be cool if we could go on dates with the NPCs once we start developing toward a romantic relationship. This may be something you all already stated you're going to be including but figured it was worth a mention.

3. Any examples of poorly executed or uninteresting NPC interactions in previous games for us to avoid.

Pure daily grind. Meaning, not just "Bring me 10 eggs" or "Bring me 5 gems" to build rep with the NPCs everyday. Those quests are great in moderation, but if there could also be "quests" where it's about having a conversation with the NPC that would be cool.

With regards to interactions, if there could be REAL consequences for your choices / responses that would be even better. Meaning, if you are continuously rude/mean to an NPC, after a certain point it should make it almost impossible to ever develop a romantic relationship or best friend relationship. I've played games where there are like only 4 or 5 key events / convos that truly affect the story, and otherwise your character can be a complete ass... which is really disappointing.

4. What NPCs in previous games have a special place in your heart and why?

I don't know if there are any in particular I would name, but I tend to enjoy NPCs that make me laugh. Funny / wtf moments with NPCs are great. NPCs that have their own rep with other NPCs or history / rivalries etc. are also awesome. Definitely makes for a more immersive experience.

5. Any other comments, suggestions, advice etc for us.

Any chance you are going to include a villain or antagonist type NPC(s) that maybe are more difficult than average for the player to build a relationship with / marry? I don't mean like crazy-evil (though I am totally cool with that), more like... let's say, Team Rocket-type evil. If the player chooses to go down that path, maybe it also makes building relationships with the other NPCs in the game that much harder as well.

I think it would also be cool if when you create your character, you also get to choose 1 standard NPC (like maybe 1 of 4 or something) who's a good friend from the start. You can't marry them or make them your best friend, but whoever you choose has an affect on your rep / faction with other NPCs and also affects the location where you begin.

Lastly, piggy-backing on what you said about having rivals etc., it would also be cool if the player could instead act like a match-maker in situations like that... like maybe I'm on that ship and I'm gonna fan the sails to help get what I want!